Disturbia, fiction, family, friends, and everything else between the lions.
Published on February 23, 2007 By Tova7 In Home & Family

My 11 year old son, Hunter, punched another boy, J, in the face at school a couple weeks ago.

 

Our family is familiar with J.  He attended a sleep over in our home earlier this winter.  His mom showed up to drop him off an hour early, in shorts (it was 20 degrees outside), with no tooth brush, pajamas, coat, or anything.

 

It can be difficult keeping track of Hunter's numerous friends.  I remember J  because the entire time he was in our home my son was constantly saying, “don’t do that!”

 

For example, this kid walked through my house putting his hands on everything including art work on the wall.  My son told him several times not to touch the crystal in the china cabinet, get out of the cabinets, leave the sewing machine alone, etc.  Just annoying little things like that.

 

After J left, (his mom was two hours late picking him up), my son fell on the couch and said, “WHEW!”

 

While Hunter remained friends with J at school, he never invited him back over.

 

So a couple weeks ago Hunt came home from school and said, “I got into a fight today at school mom.”

I said, “Huh?  What happened?”

 

He said, “Remember J?”

 

I nodded.

 

“Well he sits beside me at lunch.  (They eat at metal picnic type tables.) We have assigned spots.  He takes stuff off my tray.”

 

“You mean food?”  I asked.

 

Hunter nodded.  “Yeah.  And every time I tell him to give it back.  But he doesn’t.  So I have to get the attention of one of the teachers and have them make him give it back.”

 

“How many times has this happened?”  I asked.

 

“Three,” Hunter said.  “And everyday there are different teachers in the lunch room.”

 

“What do they say to him?”  I asked.

 

Hunter shrugged.  “They just tell him, ‘give hunter back his food.’  Then they go about their business.”

 

Ok.

 

He continues, “So today he took my candy bar.  I told him to give it back.  He wouldn’t.  So I grabbed it from him.  He got mad and pushed me, but I just kept eating and ignored the push.  But then he got really mad because I ignored his push and shoved me really hard.  I fell off the end of the bench onto the floor taking some of my food with me.”

 

“Why didn’t you just ask a teacher to make him give it back?”  I asked.

 

“Because I am tired of it mom.  They don’t ever do anything to him, and he knows better!  So I just took it back.”

 

“Then what?”  I asked.

 

“So I got up off the floor, sat down, and punched his face.”

 

“Did he hit you back?”  I asked.

 

Hunter shook his head.  “No.  He just turned really red and was quiet the rest of lunch period.”

 

“So how did you get in trouble?”  I asked.

 

He said, “One of the kids at the table saw it happen and told on us after lunch.  I know I’m in trouble mom.  But I was done.  I’m not taking it anymore.  How many times do I have to let him take something from me?  I’m ready for punishment.”

 

We talked about alternate responses briefly.  I sent him to his room and called the school (after listening to a message his principal left on my machine).

 

I verified the story with the principal.

 

So here is how the conversation with the principal went.

 

“Mrs. Tova, Hunter punched another child in the eye today,” Mr. D said.

 

“Can you tell me what happened?”  I asked (because I wanted to make sure I was getting the whole story.)

 

“That’s what Hunter told me,” I said.

 

“Well, the consequences of hitting another student is suspension.”  Mr D said.

 

Before I could say anything…

 

“But since Hunter has no record of violence, or even of temper according to his teachers, I am going to let him serve one day of in- school suspension in my office.”

 

“Ok,” I said.  “I’ve talked with Hunter and explained that he can’t be fighting at school.  I also told him I’d rather he get in trouble for getting up out of his seat without permission to move from a volatile situation, than getting into trouble fighting.  But frankly, the kid deserved it.”

 

Long pause.

 

“I’m, um, sorry you feel that way.”  Mr D said.  “If Hunter was having problems with this child he should have come to me.”

I laughed.  “He went to three separate teachers and got no satisfaction.  I remember fifth grade well Mr D and I don’t think going to the principal about a problem was EVER an option in my mind.”

 

Another long pause.

 

“So is the other child being disciplined?”  I asked.

 

“No.”

 

“WHAT?  He at the very least provoked Hunter.  He is not being disciplined?”  I said.

 

“No,” Mr D said.  “Shoving someone to the ground is not hitting.  We have rules against hitting.  Kids shove each other all the time.”

 

I said, “What about taking things that don’t belong to you?  What about making a habit of doing it?  Aren’t there rules against that?”

 

“Hunter should have come to me,” Mr D said.

 

Got off the phone and called my son back into the kitchen.

 

I told Hunter the in school suspension was punishment enough.  He wasn’t in any trouble at home.  But I emphasized he needed to walk away from an explosive situation before it escalated. 

 

Since his dad is gone, I was wondering if I handled it ok.  Frankly, I was in a lot of fights all through out school and for a lot less provocation.  But since Columbine, schools are totally freaked out about any kind of fighting.  They have classes and teach kids how to tell on the other children.

 

So when I finally was able to talk with my husband he said, “Good job!  I am so proud of him.”

 

I told my husband the principal didn’t agree.

 

My husband assured me “boys are gonna fight” and was glad to know Hunter was able to stand up for himself.

 

This is the kind of thing that reminds me how much boys need their dads.  I didn’t have a “normal” childhood, so I can’t use that as a template for my kids.  And I was never a boy.  It seems there are lots of wrong ways to handle it, and only a few good ones, and being a man (who was once a boy) gives most men the wisdom.

 

Since this incident J still interacts with Hunter in games and class, but has stopped taking his food and trying to annoy him.

 

It makes me wonder how much is heading my way that only a dad can really handle well.

 

And if I'm man enough for the job.


Comments (Page 3)
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on Feb 25, 2007

Maybe the teachers deserved detention for not doing their job. Sounds like they dropped the ball here.

Yeah, I should keep them all after school! heh.

Now Brian has one of his own to teach.  Lucky he had such loving examples!

on Feb 25, 2007
Maybe the teachers deserved detention for not doing their job. Sounds like they dropped the ball here.

Yeah, I should keep them all after school! heh.


Maybe not the teachers, but the Principal could use some ISS.

Seriously though? Unless the teachers were aware that J's lunchtime activities were re-occuring, then it really isn't their fault. Well, not entirely. If it ever happens again, tell Hunter to tell the teacher how many times it has happened before. If he has good teachers, they'll do more than the usual, "give it back and play nice" bit. If not, send 'em all to detention!

*note: because "tone" cannot be read online, I'm putting the disclaimer here. I'm not accusing anyone of attacking the teachers, or implying that Hunter should have known to tell the teachers this. Just wanted to be clear. I'd hate to be thought of as a troll.
on Feb 25, 2007

*note: because "tone" cannot be read online, I'm putting the disclaimer here. I'm not accusing anyone of attacking the teachers, or implying that Hunter should have known to tell the teachers this. Just wanted to be clear. I'd hate to be thought of as a troll.

You don't have to use disclaimers with me.  I read your blog, you are not a troll.  Even if you were saying these things in scathing tones....or writing them in...you know what I mean!  Heh.

But you are right.  Hunter told me it was diff teachers everyday so I wouldn't get mad at them.  I just wish I coulda thought about what I wanted to say to the principal for a day or so before actually talking to him.  I'm usually good on the spot, but this came out of left field.

 

on Feb 25, 2007
I read your blog, you are not a troll.


Yeah... just a hyper elf.

Maybe Hunter should hit another kid, then you'd get another chance at the principal.

Wait, that might be a bad idea. Nevermind. Forget I said anything.
on Feb 26, 2007
Well it seems they should keep track of these altercations somehow. At our church we have a nursery. It only has maybe the same 15-20 kids in all that use it. During any given Sunday it's a diff combo of little ones with their little personalities that differ with certain others. We have a chart on the wall. If there's an altercation we put the date, the two involved and the problem.

For instance on Feb 24th say........little Aaron and Billy got into it with Aaron biting Billy. We write this on the chart and inform the parents when they come in.

The next Sunday when totally diff nursery workers come in, they can look at the chart and see the history up there and be better informed. If they see little Billy and Aaron starting to argue or fight over a toy, they would immediately know what could be the end result if they don't stop it immediately.

Seems to me with these teachers having all these "teacher workshop" days they take off for, they would have some checks and balances like this figured out to better regulate behavior patterns. Lunchtime and recess seems to me to be the perfect time when fights and/or bullying occur.
on Feb 26, 2007
Seems to me with these teachers having all these "teacher workshop" days they take off for, they would have some checks and balances like this figured out to better regulate behavior patterns. Lunchtime and recess seems to me to be the perfect time when fights and/or bullying occur.



You do realize that when they go to workshops, they are actually going to lectures, right? They are doing work, they aren't just playing on the lake during a day off.

And if a teacher had to write down every little thing that happened during a lunch hour, they would not have time to teach. It's great that your church can do that with 20 or fewer kids, but these teachers have to deal with a lot more than that.

I know as an RA, there are some situations that are addressed by different members of the staff on seperate occasions and it may take a while before we all realize that we've all told room 409 to turn down the music.

Plus, if I remember correctly, keeping such files on kids is a no-no. They have school files, but those aren't the place for such incidents. I don't know if it is state by state, but I know I was told not to keep such records on students in my "education as a profession" class.
on Feb 26, 2007
No, I was just thinking not so much like files on each kid but more like a chart on the cafeteria wall that the teachers, or lunch aid monitors are aware of to better help them keep an eye on potential problems before they turn into anything big. The best way to stop a fight or altercation is before it happens not after.

They could even do it by table numbers instead of names if that's taboo which I don't know the rules/laws on this. Most kids have assigned tables or areas in the lunchroom. Keep an eye on Table 4 in Section 3 for example for a few days.

That's all I'm saying.

on Feb 26, 2007
I don't think that's allowed either. Something to do with a child's privacy or something. But, again, that could vary state by state.
on Feb 26, 2007

But, again, that could vary state by state.

Yeah I don't know.  Privacy doesn't seem to be an issue with this school though....

Lunchtime and recess seems to me to be the perfect time when fights and/or bullying occur.

It's a good thought, but there are over 300 5th graders at Hunter's school.  They cycle them through the lunch room in about 1 1/2 hours.

 

on Feb 27, 2007
It's too bad the principal couldn't see better to dispense justice equally between the students. The "J" kid will have to pick up on the action and consequences thing sooner rather then later in life. Unfortunately opportunities for kids, even for fifth graders, to get into serious trouble, are only a few more years away.

Don't discount your ability to be an excellent parent to a boy, simply because you are his mom and a woman. There are lots of things boys can learn from your perspective, that will be invaluable to them as young adults and also as an adult.

A fight like this, at this age, isn't necessarily too bad, as long as nobody is seriously injured and a pattern doesn't develop. You don't want your child under suspicion or singled out repeatedly by students of faculty for suspected violence. As someone stated you'd rather an incident like this happen in 5th grade then 12th. Certainly though the most to be gained from this by your son is the understanding that his actions have consequences both good and bad. From the perspective of your son Hunter he might understand that hitting gets him in trouble but also allows him to keep his lunch. It might also be more acceptable to miss a few days from school in his eyes then your own.

I'm very curious and wary as to why the principal in light of your statement that this other boy was attempting to intimidate your son and also initiating the physical contact, sees no reason to levy punishment on the other student while as a result of the altercation yours misses school. I'm very curious on that point indeed.
on Feb 27, 2007

very curious and wary as to why the principal in light of your statement that this other boy was attempting to intimidate your son and also initiating the physical contact, sees no reason to levy punishment on the other student while as a result of the altercation yours misses school. I'm very curious on that point indeed.

All I can tell you about this is what the principal told me.  J was just being a normally "immature" boy, playing the take away game with Hunter (though Hunter was not playing).  While Hunter responded with violence.  (Apparently shoving isn't violence.)

Don't discount your ability to be an excellent parent to a boy, simply because you are his mom and a woman. There are lots of things boys can learn from your perspective, that will be invaluable to them as young adults and also as an adult

Thank you Dan.  I really need to hear that occasionally.  I know a few years back something was on the news saying "Dads are irrelevant."  (Or something to that effect.)  I couldn't disagree more.  Boys need dads, or a strong male influence in their lives.  At least my boys do.

 

on Feb 28, 2007
"(Apparently shoving isn't violence.)"

I was in highschool when Columbine happened. It was as surreal as aliens making themselves known to us Earthlings. Teachers were freaked, not freaked but the rules and new procedures the drills that administrators were forced to come up with, the realization that the negatives of the "gun culture" were indeed possible and in fact, very probable to continue became a reality.

The real vulnerability of a school became a reality in the eyes of people. This was one of the things in the last 20 years that have sorta "grown-up" a generation of people at different ages in this country. That and 9/11. Not to derail a conversation...

There became a definition of violence, in our school district, as anything that harms or threatens to harm a persons, body or things. Something like that, it's been a few years. Anyway, shoving is sure violence if the intent is aggressive, and so is intimidation. The administrators are probably right that they cannot hope to enforce against all forms of violence, and punching someone in the face vs shoving someone obviously carries a different level of intensity and intent of aggressiveness.

However, in my opinion, the principal would have been wise to provide for some justice for the other kid too, make an understanding that intimidation or provocation of animosity or violence is just as wrong as perpetrating violence.

I'm not an educator but maybe the message is lost on younger kids so its better to just talk to them. I would think they might have been able to warn your child rather then just suspend him. Enter the "zero tolerance policy" which seems to be adopted by every school for whatever they don't want to deal with. Drugs, Violence, Cheating... etc.

"playing the take away game with Hunter (though Hunter was not playing)"

Must be a new spin on it in grade school when we used to play it, you were required to return what you took. If you take away a brownie and eat it, you can't return it. If you do it over and over thats intimidation. Petty theft?

As for you being a mom, I hope that was good advice. I at one time, was living with my mother, grandmother, aunt, and sister. Thankfully those days of being outnumbered by women 4:1 are over Shhhhhh don't tell anybody I said that.

But it's very true that boys as well as girls need a good role model of how a man should act as well as how a woman should act.

"Boys need dads, or a strong male influence in their lives."

They certainly do, and I hope your boy's father is doing his duty to his child to be that strong male influence to the best of his ability and your circumstance. My father didn't from when I was about 6 until I was nearing 18, and unfortunately for the glee club of the world, well and he's just a stranger to me now. I keep it that way, because the betrayal was just so hurtful. Still he makes an effort to bridge the gap on occasion, but I don't respect it, like I would have had he done it when I needed a father. Being 25 today, I certainly know how not to do it I think, though I'm not sure if I have the guts to do the job right. Time will tell I suppose.

Really though he's not my father because he didn't support my mom, and I saw that, and I know that to be a no-no, so on top of being a loser of a man ( as unbiased as I can be ), a piss poor father, and a terrible ex, he was also a slouch when it came to being the financial support for myself and sibling(s). My mom really never went after him, because she didn't want to invite the custody battle again, and he never really was able to provide that support because he would work for a time and then quit and job drift from job to job. Now he lives off the government and veteran benefits. In other words he's a real winner.

Hopefully your son, will be able to maintain a relationship that's productive with you both, and he will have to decide for himself how to be a man in his own way. I certainly wouldn't have turned out to be half the person that I am without the support and sacrifice my mother made for our family when my father failed to meet his obligations.

You should know that if you feel you are doing a good or even above average job, as a mom, you are making it, and the appreciate maybe not always expressed, is there.
on Feb 28, 2007
If he doesn't learn to stand up for himself now, then he may not when he gets older. Every person has the right to defend themselves. Schools now a day tend to emasculate that right. You should be proud of your son. When my nephews got into fights in school where they were in the right, I took them out to eat or to the mall to celebrate when suspended from school and of course the school was made aware of our "celebration".

"J" may just grow up to be a resident of a correctional facilty. Your son did MORE to deter "J" from that path than the school ever will for failure to hold "J" accountable and punish him.

Kudos to your son and Kudos to you.


I guess the only thing I would have done differently is to let him and the school know that my son "WILL NOT" be punished for defending himself. I would have not let him sit in the principles' office, but instead told the school that I'm taking my son for whom I'm proud for defending himself out shopping AND that he is permitted to defend himself in the future and I will not permit the school to punish him in such situations. I will also remind the school that failure to discipline "J" and deal with him will only bring more problems both now in the future.

As an uncle I'm proud of my nephews.
on Feb 28, 2007
I am certainly no expert, but I wanted to point out that it's good you have a good enough relationship with your son's dad to talk to him. I don't know the status of your marriage, but some couples don't speak at all. I think you're up to the task and had a very appropriate answer, but I think it's very reassuring to know that you can talk to the father and get his viewpoint. You're not alone.
on Feb 28, 2007
I hope your boy's father is doing his duty to his child to be that strong male influence to the best of his ability and your circumstance.


Yes, my husband is an awesome dad. He is in the military (currently in Afghanistan) and gone a lot. So I am picking up the slack. It seems as my boys get older a lot of the issues which come about require a male perspective. For example, I found a curse word on one of my son's emails. I wanted to freak out, but my husband assured me *most* boys try on curse words around age 11 on.

So his punishment fit the crime and I didn't go over board.

My father didn't from when I was about 6 until I was nearing 18, and unfortunately for the glee club of the world, well and he's just a stranger to me now.


I am sorry to read this Dan. We have something in common. My mom did the same kind of thing, except she never attempted to bridge any gaps. I don't hold any anger against her now (but you can bet I had a boat load when I was 25). I hope you get past your anger toward your dad. Not for his sake, but for yours. It is one of the best gifts you can give yourself....I promise!  

I certainly wouldn't have turned out to be half the person that I am without the support and sacrifice my mother made for our family when my father failed to meet his obligations.


I hope you have told her this! Moms love to hear this type thing. haha.
You should know that if you feel you are doing a good or even above average job, as a mom, you are making it,


Well that's the problem. This is new territory for me. Not having a mom to emulate, I often have to critique my methods.

Thanks for your thoughtful response Dan. I appreciate it.

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