Disturbia, fiction, family, friends, and everything else between the lions.
Published on October 8, 2008 By Tova7 In Blogging

Gavin started Kindergarten this year.  He is five, turns six in February.

If you read my blog you already know I was concerned about the length of the time he is required to ride the school bus here.

Gavin rides with only Kindergartners to school, but with K-5 after.

I was worried.  Gavin is a small guy and older boys can be hard on him. 

He's also a follower.  Of all the personality quirks my little man has, this is the one I find hardest to accept.  I know comparing your kids isn't good, but since Hunter is my only experience with child rearing at this age, I do.  Hunter has NEVER been a follower.  Once he sets his mind that something is wrong he won't do it.  No matter who tells him too, no matter how much pressure they apply, (be it physical or emotional).

So when I told Hunter at 3,4,5 his private parts are his, not for anyone else to see or touch (that's why they're PRIVATE) he got it.  When a kid smacked his butt in first grade Hunter went immediately to the school office and called me.  He told me someone touched his private parts.  I kept a check on the blood pressure long enough to ask which part and what happened.  He told me Johnny slapped his butt while they walked down the hall.

I realized in that moment Hunter understood, TOO WELL, and I felt a bit safer for him.

Along comes Gavin and I see by the third year he has many many more tactile needs than any kid I've ever met.  Touch is practically oxygen to him.  And it can be anyone, just as long as he is being touched.  (I am told this is because he was almost 2 months early...but I think part of it runs in my husband's family...who knows for sure, its just how he is.)

I was molested repeatedly as a kid.  Without going into detail, (I'm not traumatized, it's old news and dealt with) I can tell you it happened because no one ever bothered to mention it was:

a.) wrong, no matter how good it felt

b.) was carried out by people who were not stable

c.) kids can do it to each other.

Having experienced this and many other pitfalls in childhood (experienced because my parents were too busy/pre-occupied to be parents), I stopped working and stayed home with my kids when they came along.  The pitfalls of childhood weren't the only reasons I chose to stay home, but they certainly contributed.  I was determined to protect my kids from the types of things that happen when children are young and there is no adult supervision.

Gavin, because of his high tactile needs, has received more of the "private parts, don't touch, don't show them" than Hunter ever did.  I didn't beat it to death everyday, but as Kindergarten approached and he was going to be out of my or my husband's sight for the first time ever, I talked with him more about it.

Great.

Good.

So last week I get a call from the principal at the elementary.  He called to tell me there was an "incident on the bus with Gavin."  He told me a little girl on the bus went home from school and told her mom "Gavin pulled his pants down on the bus."  her mom called the school.

Great.

Good.

The principal talked to Gavin and the other kids who "saw this" and called me.  He lectured me for fifteen minutes about how this was not something to get angry about, but the issue needed to be addressed, yadda yadda yadda.  Oh your kid likes to play and sit with girls.  He has an issue with kissing one little girl in particular, then he hung up.

I held the receiver in my hand.  WTF?

I was shocked because Gavin never in all his social interactions EVER seemed inclined to pull his pants down in front of girls.  He does love little girls, but I think that's because they are "touchers."  They like to hold hands and run, dog pile on the slide and go down as a big lump, etc.

I waited for him to come home.  He was pretty scared because he had to go to the principal's office.  He wouldn't talk about it when I asked him.  He just started crying, ran and hid behind an overstuffed chair.  He was embarrassed (and rightly so) but I have never seen him act so ashamed.  He couldn't speak while looking at me.

His dad and I talked to him, asked why he did it.  He said, he was checking his penis because for some reason it started standing up a lot.  He said he had to pull his pants out to "fix it" and when he did, the girl in the next seat must of saw "it."

I wasn't too happy with that explanation because of all the talks we've had over the years about seeing to private places PRIVATELY, but ok, he messed up and promised NEVER to do it again.  My husband didn't buy it at all.  He said "there is more to this story."  But without more information, and none of the kids said any different, we went with it being an isolated incident.

So everyday since, my husband and I talked to Gavin about good choices and poor choices, private business versus public business.  We even worked it into a role playing type game.

Fast forward to yesterday.

Gavin gets off the bus and tells me right away he just (as in ten minutes before) pulled his pants down on the bus.  Steam started coming out of my ears.  I sat him down and asked him what happened.

This is what he said:  "I was in my assigned seat (two seat behind bus driver) with my seat mate waiting for the rest of the kids to get on the bus.  (The Kindergartners get on first because they are supposed to sit up front and most of them are so small the other kids will crush them in the rush to get on the bus.)  My friend Karen (a boy and that is not his name, Gavin doesn't even know his name just calls him Karen) sat down with us and said, 'lets pull down our pants and kiss private parts.'"

Um, I think its fair to say I was totally freaking out inside, though outside calm as a cucumber.

He told me that he said no at first, but then Karen pulled down his pants and Gavin and his seat mate kissed his "privates" and then Gavin pulled down his pants and received the kisses, and then the other kid did the same.

Voice shaking I said, "Private parts?  Which private parts?"

He said, "Booties."  (Butts)

It should tell you something about my reaction when I was RELIEVED he said butts.  But the relief was fleeting.

I asked for clarification, he said they kissed each others butts.

I reminded him of our friggin WEEK long conversation about private parts being private and HOW COULD HE DO IT AGAIN?  He cried and said Karen wouldn't be his friend anymore unless he did it.

I beat his ass.

Probably not the best approach, but damn.  Obviously talking to him FOR A WEEK didn't make an impression so maybe a spanking will.  He got three swats right on his butt and grounded for the rest of the day.  I won't lie, there was more than a little bit of screaming going on.

I called the bus driver.  He didn't "see" anything.  The camera on the bus is broken.  (Like everything else in this school district.)  He hadn't gotten around to assigning seats yet.  I guess bus driving must be a pretty busy job since school's been in session for over 2 months and the kids still have no assigned seats.  He told me he runs the "older" kids to the back of the bus to keep them from the Kindergartners.

So we found out today "Karen" is a 2nd grade boy who has taken an interest in Gavin.  (Gavin can be manipulated like a puppet once a kid discovers just the THREAT of withholding friendship will make Gavin obey their every whim.)

When the vice principle asked Karen if he sat with Gavin yesterday, the kid said no.  But the bus driver said he DID see Karen sit with Gavin yesterday so the kid was lying.  Well, DUH.

So now my husband is saying..."see I told ya there was more to the story.  Gavin doesn't just pull his pants down in front of people."

And while I am sorely tempted to make this 2nd grade kid out as a pervert.  The reasons I don't are twofold.  First, the principle was content to do the same thing to my kid last week..to make it a personal character issue at friggin 5....Two, the truth is, he had to learn it from somewhere.  He's 8 and while a certain amount of exploration may be considered normal, kissing other kids' naked butts on a school bus has more worms than a rotting corpse.

Of course now the bus driver is on super alert.  Hell, no one will mess with Gavin again on that bus and they are making it a priority to get the camera fixed.  (Shut the barn door the horse is out.)

I am still so angry I can't see straight.  I'm angry with Gavin for being such a follower and so friggin needy for friendship he will do anything to make others like him.

I am angry that I spent the last three years talking to him about just this type thing and he "forgot."

I am angry that the principal assumed last week my kid was a perv and this was our pervy family's issue.

I am angry the bus driver wasn't doing his damn job, the camera is broken, and no one noticed 2 little boys sitting with a boy almost twice their size and pulling their pants down.

I'm angry that all the sacrifices we made to make sure something like this didn't happen to our kid in babysitting/daycare was derailed by it happening at school.

I'm just angry.

 

 

 

 

 


Comments (Page 2)
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on Oct 09, 2008

Tonya,

Wow, I am so sorry to hear about this. I think you are right, Something is off with Karen and his manipulating ways.

I think this might be the thing that helps Gavin understand the severity. Just keep talking to Gavin and I know you and your husband will deal with it appropriately with the school. It sucks though, really sucks.

on Oct 09, 2008

Something is off with Karen and his manipulating ways.

Yes, also I couldn't help wondering if "Karen" told Gavin that's what his name was. Maybe he's a budding homo-transvestite?

Sorry, had to get that thought out there. Hopefully Karen will never read any of this and his life will smooth out after this incident.

on Oct 09, 2008

That's some scary stuff.  I'm really sorry that you and your family are going through this.  It makes me wonder how hard Gavin's teenage years will be for him.  Peer pressure is a real bitch as a kid and puberty only intensifies it.

I don't know what to think about that other kid.  LW makes a very good point but I have to be honest and say his behaviour kind of freaks me out.  And although the physical stuff is freaky, what really gets me is how that young boy was able to identify his target.  This is something that really mystifies me.  

It seems to me that picking out someone like that is kind of a sophisticated thought process.  In this case, it's not just opportunity because the older boy had a bus full of kids to choose from.  Am I wrong?  Is this kind of thing instinctual?

I agree that a human bus monitor would be way more effective than a camera.  A camera would just be used as evidence to prosecute, not a way to prevent anything from happening. Realistically, I wouldn't want a bus driver to have his attention anywhere but the road.  It seems to me that asking the driver to effectively monitor the students is courting a traffic accident.

 

I hope this works out in a positive way for all involved.

on Oct 09, 2008

I agree that a human bus monitor would be way more effective than a camera. A camera would just be used as evidence to prosecute, not a way to prevent anything from happening. Realistically, I wouldn't want a bus driver to have his attention anywhere but the road. It seems to me that asking the driver to effectively monitor the students is courting a traffic accident.

Yes, I believe so too.  It would be more effective to have a bus monitor on board, but of course with funding that seems difficult these days.  In NY all the buses has bus monitors, here in Florida, and obviously elsewhere, they don't.  This is definitely very risky for all concerned. 

 

Tonya, I understand your angst but don't be too hard on yourself. Obviously you and your husband are doing the right thing and groing your children in the manner that is good for your family, and our society.  I find the description of how the school principal handled the incident appalling.  I hope you call him on that one. Also, definitely getting the child, Karen's parents involved too is very important so that they can be aware of what is going on. 

It's awful when you try to grow your children the way that is best, and good, outside influences is never far behind and not too easily shut out.  I understand your description of Gavin because Amanda can be the same way at times, and like you, I drill into her what is right and wrong, not acceptable, etc.  Unfortunately older kids can be such a menace and so mean-spirited.  The younger ones will do anything to fit in and to be friends with their peers.  I go through this with Amanda a lot too and it is worrisome and constantly talking to her, guiding her and being there is all we can do. And prayerfully they make it trhough unscathed.  That boy "Karen" definitely needs help.

on Oct 09, 2008

I'm sort of in a stupor on that topic right now because it's hard for me to know how much detail to go into with my son who's never experienced anything inappropriate.

You don't have to wait for anything inappropriate.  Any child that understands "underwear" can grasp the no touching concept.  We describe out private parts as those our underwear covers.  Private parts are not for anyone else to touch or look at, and visa versa.  The only exception is the Dr and only if mom or dad are there.

I have always told my boys if they have issues with their private parts then they go somewhere IN PRIVATE to deal with it.

I'm thinking that in addition to the driver, that bus needs an adult bus monitor whose sole purpose is to monitor the kids. I think that would be better than a camera.

The schools won't pay for a monitor.  They pay for them on the pre-school routes but not for the rest of the kids.  That is why they put cameras on the bus.

I disagree with you on the bus driver issue.  My aunt drove a school bus for almost 30 years and never ever had something like this happen on her bus.  The fact Gavin sits two seats behind the driver and the driver's mirror is directed right in that direction means the driver never once looked up in that mirror, not at stop signs, or at lights, not once.

Driving the bus is about the physical operation sure, but its also BY LAW other things as well.  The bus driver is responsible for each and every child on that bus.  In my experience, women drivers take this more to heart.  They will stop the bus to address a behavior problem.  The men seem to just drive and let the kids do what they want.

 

on Oct 09, 2008

I think this might be the thing that helps Gavin understand the severity. Just keep talking to Gavin and I know you and your husband will deal with it appropriately with the school. It sucks though, really sucks.

I hope so.  The spanking worked because before when we talked about it, it was more talking TO him...now when we discuss it, he talks WITH us about it.  It's almost like his mind was scattered and he needed a swat to bring him back down.  I can see he "understands" it better now.

I will spank him if it happens again.  At this point if making him more afraid of me than of not having a "friend" will bridge this time of immaturity in his life and keep him safe, then bring on the fear.  I don't think its a long term solution by any measure, but until he grasps the reasoning, or until the humiliation fear comes into play, it'll do. 

on Oct 09, 2008

Instead of being angry with 'Karen' (or even his parents, because they may not be the culprits) you've been given an opportunity to bless him, Tova.

I am not blessing him.

I feel bad for him, and think there is more going on.  But the school is doing exactly what I'd do, calling the appropriate authorities and letting an investigation ensue.

I certainly won't invite him over.  I don't want Gavin to have anything to do with the child.  Period.  Inviting him over says I know what happened and its ok.  It's not ok.  I teach my kids to stay away from people who can hurt them, or drag them down.  I want them to be selective when it comes to their associates.

Is something going on with Karen?  Yeah, probably.  Is it his fault?  Nope.

But my first responsibility is to protect and care for my own child.  I (well my husband will) follow through as an outside 3rd party for Karen, but I won't be doing any person to person hands on with the kid.

I know my limits.  I know I can't help Karen because I can never trust my judgment to be rational in this area.  I also know having my son exposed to Karen's inappropriate behavior isn't beneficial to him.

Parents have hard decisions.  While I might sacrifice my own "good" to help another.  I, as an adult can make that choice for myself.  I do not have the right to sacrifice my child's "good" for any reason.  His welfare is entrusted to me until he's old enough to make decisions for himself.

When it comes to my child's welfare over another child's welfare....I am going to pick my child every. single. time.

Any parent who would put the well-being of another kid before their own...well, in my mind, somethings not right there.  (And I know you realize I am not talking about material things here, but safety, mental and emotional well being.)

 

on Oct 09, 2008

It seems to me that picking out someone like that is kind of a sophisticated thought process. In this case, it's not just opportunity because the older boy had a bus full of kids to choose from. Am I wrong? Is this kind of thing instinctual?

You raise good points.  I do believe some of the curiosity is normal.  The line is usually the motivation, the driving force behind the action.  When its curiosity, generally its done in secret away from adults.  And once curiosity is sated the kids move on.

When the motiviation becomes some sort of sexual gratification based on manipulation then the act becomes more sinister, more damaging (at least to me).

I don't believe an 8 year old should be shunned and despised because he did this.  (Though admittedly the bond of trust is broken as far as I'm concerned and he won't be at my house.)  He IS just a child.  I believe his parents should have a chance to help rectify this behavior and look into it.  If they won't, then the proper authorities should step in and see to his protection or re-education.

 

on Oct 09, 2008

It's awful when you try to grow your children the way that is best, and good, outside influences is never far behind and not too easily shut out. I understand your description of Gavin because Amanda can be the same way at times, and like you, I drill into her what is right and wrong, not acceptable, etc. Unfortunately older kids can be such a menace and so mean-spirited. The younger ones will do anything to fit in and to be friends with their peers. I go through this with Amanda a lot too and it is worrisome and constantly talking to her, guiding her and being there is all we can do. And prayerfully they make it trhough unscathed. That boy "Karen" definitely needs help.

Yeah I fooled myself into believing if I did x,y and z then my kids wouldn't have to endure some of the ugliness.  I know women who literally abandoned their kids to public child rearing at 6 weeks old, and so far, so good.

Not even 10 weeks after putting my son in public care, this happens.

And when I think of that little girl who has witnessed these two events, and the conversations she must be having with her mom...heh, I bet her mom is FREAKING out. 

on Oct 09, 2008

Simon and I refer to it as 'picking puppets' and it's not as sophisticated as one might think.

When I was in the social work program in undergrad (before I changed majors) I did a study on the homeless.  In many shelters across this country the homeless can be categorized as "hawks" or "sparrows."

The hawks are predatory in almost all their interactions and often end up with whatever little material possessions the sparrows hold, more food, etc.  (Which is why more and more shelters make the homeless put their stuff in a locker before ever entering into the facility and why so many won't go to shelters).

I do think people are born hawks or sparrows.  My oldest has always been strong, independent.  My youngest has always been more touchy feely, and dependent.  I don't think Gavin could be a hawk if he tried.  The only thing that keeps Hunter from being a hawk is his developed since of right and wrong.  But he won't be anyone's victim either.

If you think about it.  If you were denied something you really "needed"...for the sake of argument say food, wouldn't you immediately start thinking of ways to get it?  Ways to get it and not get in trouble for it?

 

on Oct 09, 2008

Or...you could throw him back to the wolves like KFC did with 'Evan.' Hey, as long as it's not affecting YOUR kid, why not?

Now this is just a slam LW for a slams sake.  No other reason.

 I threw no child to the wolves.  In fact my house was the house that the children came to because I preferred it that way and I was a stay at home mom.  I cooked more pigs-in-blankets than I dare count and cool-aid was considered a staple in our house. 

 If you read what I wrote LW you'd see that I didn't do anything at first until I was tired of his preocupation with sex as a sixth grader not wishing for my own boys to get caught up in it.  I had this child from K-6th grade.  His mother was my running partner.  He was an only child who was allowed to have a TV in his room at a very young age and most likely picked up his attitudes about sex from staying up and watching the late night shows (such as Johnny Carson) as young as 4th grade.

He wasn't sexually abused and his parents were not happy when these "occurrences" would come up from time to time. 

I wish just once LW you'd give me the benefit of the doubt like you do your favorites. 

 

on Oct 09, 2008

When I was in the social work program in undergrad (before I changed majors) I did a study on the homeless. In many shelters across this country the homeless can be categorized as "hawks" or "sparrows."

The hawks are predatory in almost all their interactions and often end up with whatever little material possessions the sparrows hold, more food, etc. (Which is why more and more shelters make the homeless put their stuff in a locker before ever entering into the facility and why so many won't go to shelters).

hmmmm that's interesting Tova.  I know there are other programs out there that use comparisons involving owls (my husband was told he was an owl) and other birds as well. 

I can see one of my kids as a hawk all the way up.  I can see how another son would be a sparrow but has changed somewhat as an adult to a hawk not wanting to be taken advantage of any longer although I don't think of him as predatory more just guarding what is his.  I think of another of my sons as an owl and as neither a hawk or sparrow. 

I think I'm going to look more into this. 

on Oct 09, 2008

I think I'm going to look more into this.

Let me know what you find...I use the words hawk and sparrow because in the many things I read during my research, these words were used by the homeless to identify each other to a third party.  So if a new guy walks in and sits down for instance, the guy sitting next to him could with one word identify the people he should "watch out" for....

 

on Oct 09, 2008

It's far better to have the protection and favor of the baddest hawk in town, even if he takes stone cold advantage of ya, because at least then you know what to expect, and you're protected from all the others...those unknowns who could make you even more miserable than you already are.

Well I dunno.  I'd rather take my lumps and fight than be protected by someone who takes advantage of me.  Eventually they (the predators) either give up or I'd die in the struggle.  Either way I'm free.

Just an update:

Gavin and I took a walk a little while ago.  I don't know why I didn't think of this until our walk, but obviously if the kid rides Gavin's bus he lives near us.

We passed a kid who lives about two blocks from us.  He is out of control in such a public way I've often told Gavin as we walk past his house to stay away from him, and never be alone with him.  He's just one of those kids who doesn't act right.

Every time I see the kid he is doing something destructive like throwing rocks at cars, trashing the neighbors yard, and always ALWAYS the kid is playing out by the road all by himself.

When Gavin's buddy lived a few doors down from this wild child..the wild one often wandered down to try and play with the younger boys.  The parent's had to run him off because he's too old to play with (at the time 4 year olds) and he's so destructive with a mouth you wouldn't believe.

Usually when anyone walks past his house he walks right to where the property meets the road, and then follows you the length of his yard talking or throwing rocks or whatever.

No kidding I've had to stop and speak with this kid several times the last two years because his behavior is so bizarre.  The throwing rocks thing really pisses me off, especially since they are decorative stones I know his neighbors paid a lot of money for, not to mention the potential personal damage....

Well GUESS WHO KAREN IS???

We got past the kid today exposed only to his mouth, no parent visible, there never is, and I said as I have said every time we see that kid for two years, "Gavin stay away from him.  Somethings not right with his head.  I think he's going to be dangerous when he gets older."

Gavin said, "That's Karen."

Damn.

I shoulda known.

Of course that's Karen.  That's the kid who has no self control whatsoever, and apparently no supervision either.  I thought about knocking on the door and talking to his mom but I am still too angry, especially since I now know who the kid is...and it makes it all SO MUCH WORSE.  And what is she gonna say?  I took walks almost every day this summer and last, that kid was always playing out by the street, usually doing something socially unacceptable if not downright illegal.

His home is unkempt, the yard overgrown, amongs homes with manicured laws and landscaped flowerbeds.

Pitiful.

 

 

on Oct 10, 2008

Remember, Gavin is different, you said it yourself.

Yeah good point.  When it comes to social interaction we are opposites.

As for the other idea, yup yup.

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