Disturbia, fiction, family, friends, and everything else between the lions.
Published on February 9, 2010 By Tova7 In Current Events

THAT NIGHT…I went home and did a little research. 

I researched the school and district policies on “threats.”

Not surprisingly, there wasn’t anything about threatening the President of the U.S.  However, there were some criteria for what constituted a viable “threat” made by a student while on campus.  This situation did not meet any of that criteria.  Not a single iota.  In fact, the policy goes out of its way to say words have to be weighed with intent, opportunity, etc.  (Like one kid threatening another at school, there is opportunity maybe or maybe not intent (administrative discretion is used here)…there was checklist and this situation didn’t merit a single item.

We talked with our son, who once again assured us this was crazy because NO ONE THREATENED THE PRESIDENT, and asked him if he knew it was a felony to threaten the president.  (Sex, peer pressure, drugs, accountability, and all the things teens deal with these days….somehow or another not threatening the president of the US wasn’t in our top ten primary concerns….especially since H doesn’t have the habit of ever threatening ANYONE…why would we think his first one would be toward the president?)

H reminded us about the movie that came out a few years ago showing George Bush being assassinated.  He reminded us we had this conversation then..that it was a felony to threaten the president.  So yeah, we covered it…so could we please not do it again? haha

My husband called the police officer that night and had him email the report to us…it says essentially that there was an accusation the threat was made, but his investigation shows only he said, she said, with everyone either pointing fingers or saying it didn’t happen at all. 

We chalked it up to middle school drama, administrative incompetency and go on.

 

THE NEXT DAY….

I was in the grocery store when my cell phone rang.

VP:  “Ms Tova, this is Mr A from the middle school.  I wanted to call and tell you the Secret Service will be here within the hour to speak with Hunter.”

Me:  “You have GOT to be kidding me?"

VP: ~righteous~ “No I am not.”

Me:  “I can’t be there within the hour.”

VP:  “If you can’t be here, myself or another could sit in as H’s representative, in your place.”

Me:  ~laughs~ “Isn’t that above your pay grade?”

Silence.

Me:  “If you’re calling to ask….I do NOT give permission for the Secret Service to speak to my child without myself or my husband present.  Are we clear?”

VP:  “Yes.”

I hung up.  Called my husband.  He went to the school and sat in on the meeting.  He said the SS agent seemed annoyed at the waste of time, but he was professional anyway.  The SS agent never asked H if he threatened the president, instead he asked things like…do you own a gun, ever shot a gun, ever killed anything?  (Even though the original statement said there was a threat made involving the president and a grenade.)

(As a side note…my oldest is a pacifist in everything…. but especially doesn’t hunt…thank goodness these questions weren’t directed toward my 6 year old…who LOVES to hunt and skin his own game. hahaha  No access to grenades tho…sorry..)

Now here is where it gets interesting.

Though the boys were pretty much vindicated through the interview process (no one threatened the president)….their names are now on a list kept by the Dept. of Homeland Security.

They didn’t go to trial.  Weren’t convicted of anything, were essentially exonerated in the end of even making the threat, the “incident” is still on record. 

The SS agent told my husband there is no statue of limitation on the list, and YES it could effect any future security clearance my son might wish to obtain for employment purposes.  As well as any area in which Homeland security is involved.  And God forbid if someone ever makes another bad joke involving the president in his vicinity….and really how likely is that with teenage boys?  They’re all so wise and circumspect in their speech.

So essentially if I LIE and say I heard YOU threaten the President, and then I call the cops or Homeland security, EVEN IF YOU PROVE I’M LYING…the incident is recorded.  Your name is on a list to be flagged in the future for anything that has to do with security, passports, etc.  Since this list doesn’t fall under criminal/civil law…its just a “list” and therefore “no due process is required.”  (And in some states, like Ohio, by law, the “incident” has to be given to the attorney general…(ya know in case he/she decides there is a case here after all and wants to prosecute it).

How ludicrous is that?

Now imagine if someone does this to one of your kids?  And that someone is supposed to be a child advocate, someone who is in a profession dedicated to educating and shaping children?

Does it seem reasonable that the VP’s choices, every step of the way, were made in ways that could produce the most harm to the kids involved?

It’s been two weeks, and I’m still flabbergasted by it all.

 


Comments (Page 1)
2 Pages1 2 
on Feb 09, 2010

 

on Feb 09, 2010

Welcome to 1984, Obama style.  If only we had the patriot act to worry about.  Nope, we got Obama's thought police!

on Feb 09, 2010

What I discovered during this whole thing is...you may think you have freedom of speech, but you don't have freedom from accusation.  The legal system is in place to protect your life from false accusations, but there is nothing to protect your reputation.

Homeland Security and their lists are ALL ABOUT REPUTATION.

You can essentially be black-balled on a list, getting more severe scrutiny, or even denied certain benefits/privileges.

I get the whole list thing on an adult level....but black-balling 12-14 year old's before their lives even begin because of conversations/arguments on the playground or in study halls should not be part of it.

on Feb 09, 2010

I don't get how this has to do with Obama? There is no thought police in the US. Under Bush the same thing could have happened if you had the same ridiculous people like Mr A around. The police and SS have the obligation to investigate if someone calls in a tip, even if it had been a 14 year old boy who talked with his friends in school about something that they found interesting like white house security. That practise isn't connected to which political party is currently in power.

All in all, your story is nuts. Only in America..

Your story highlights the danger from accumulating data by the government without your explicit consent and knowledge about what is  done with that data. I mean - the security services seem to have unlimited power to find out about your life because so much is done electronically. If  you use your credit card, rent a car, make a trip, CCTV cameras in many places record what you're doing - the police can find you. In the immediate aftermath of the Ford Hood massacre there was a story about a young soldier that had been awol and had been reported to have picked up a shotgun in his  car. He was on the road in his car but the police had made his location inside of 30 minutes "with some help" and detained him. That IS creepy.

on Feb 09, 2010

The police and SS have the obligation to investigate if someone calls in a tip, even if it had been a 14 year old boy who talked with his friends in school about something that they found interesting like white house security.

Actually they don't.  Unless someone directly threatens the President, the SS doesn't get involved.  Talking about white house security falls under freedom of speech.

Under Bush the same thing could have happened if you had the same ridiculous people like Mr A around.

True.  But the tenor of things have changed.  How is no one questioned when a movie is made depicting images of Bush being murdered?  Not a single charge.  And yet kids talking at the jr high level, and based on no facts and just rumor, are interviewed by the SS?

There seems to be a hyper-sensitivity toward anything Obama.  The laws may not change, but the spirit in which they are applied certainly has....and in that, little pieces of our freedom are chipped away...and the sad part is, we can't know by how much until something happens and we reach for our rights....only to find they've been modified, not by legal processes, but by political correctness and FEAR. 

 

on Feb 10, 2010

I read in the paper here that some of the tea party movement is criticising the Bush administration for giving the government too much means or leeway to snoop around in people's lives and to use technologiy to overhear and oversee what you're doing. That patriot act had some real doozies in it if I remeber it correctly. Too much police state they claim. Funny thing is that this claim about a police state and thought police etc comes from the republicans against Bush, where Dr Guy has the same reservations about the current administration. I chalk it up to american paranoia - take a picture of your little 2 year odl girl playing naked in the garden in the kiddie pool in summer - you're a pedophile. Knitting needles might be used as a weapon on airplanes - banned. (at least a few years ago). Make elderly people take off their shoes at the airport.. really? Talk about white house security, you plan an attack. It falls into the same category, for me. It seems to me that the police is a lot more forceful in the US than in Germany as well. Of course, I only have the infornation from COPS (great entertainment) and tv shows, but the general tenor could be about accurate. If they want something from you and you move wrong, first thing is you get handcuffed or tazered if they think there is even a little chance that you could be a potential threat. Nothing like that ever happens where I live.

on Feb 10, 2010

True. But the tenor of things have changed.

Exactly!  The law is the law, but it seemed to  be at least enforced more intelligently in the past (Whether it was Bush 41 or 43 or Clinton or before).  Now there is just extreme paranoia by the administration.  I beleive that it is an off shoot of their continued efforts to promote racism.  Obama may have been elected, but that just means he is a bigger target now (to their thinking).  It is more widely (and hysterically) reported whenever a pin drops today, whereas it has not been like that in my life time.

And the truth is that of the 4 assassination attempts made on presidents in my life time, none of them advertised the fact before the attempt.  I think in saner times, the Secret Service knows that.  But this is all about the "I" factor and how modern american liberals like to play the victim.

on Feb 10, 2010

I think in saner times, the Secret Service knows that. But this is all about the "I" factor and how modern American liberals like to play the victim.

I'm trying to move away from ideology, right vs left.  I discovered something pretty unflattering about myself this past year.  Often times when confronted with a political problem or situation I operated from the point of having the answer before even investigating the facts.

I'll leave that to people like Rush Limbaugh.  I don't have anything against Rush, and probably agree with him more than not....but he always operates from the ANSWER backward...meaning, he sees a situation and tries to figure out how his ideas and beliefs can be re-enforced by looking at the evidence in a stilted manner instead of head on.

Utemia is right imo.  Republicans and Democrats, Americans, are responsible for the way things are today in this country...not just a certain group.  And I have yet to see a group (liberal, conservative, republican, democrat, libertarian) that actually has everything right....as is most things in life...the truth is often a little bit of each.

on Feb 10, 2010

Republicans and Democrats, Americans, are responsible for the way things are today in this country...not just a certain group. And I have yet to see a group (liberal, conservative, republican, democrat, libertarian) that actually has everything right....as is most things in life...the truth is often a little bit of each.

or not responsible.  As I was not saying "democrats" per se.  I clearly included Clinton in the "saner" years.  Obama is a democrat, but that does not mean all democrats are paranoid, but this group sure is!

on Feb 10, 2010

Maybe a more diverse political spectrum than Republican vs Democrat would be good. I read that the Tea Party movement is gaining in importance and could be a deciding factor in the elections next fall. Who knows, maybe they form their own party. The "Left" party is very new in Germany and was formed by more left faction of the social democrats (SPD). So now Germany has conservative parties CDU (Christian democratic union) and FDP (Free Democratic Party), the liberal parties SPD (Social Democratic Party) and the farleft party "the Left", and the green party. The left party is really creepy though. In order to rule one party has to have a majority which is hard to obtain on your own so coalitions have to be forged. Thus, compromising and backstage politicking (is that a word?) are normal facts of life.

Do you think a new party would have any success? Like if this Tea party movement ends in the founding of a new far right (or more right) conservative party than the Republicans, or a more conservative faction of the democrats would form a more centrist liberal party. I find it so hard to believe that people can only chose between left and right - there are lots of different political oppinions possible in that spectrum.

Most americans I met seem to be somehow paranoid to some extent. I remember conservations with a friend from Cali who is uber conservative and even the slightest hint of a critique of the war in Iraq or guantanamo detention centre (this had been 5 or 6 years ago) would make Mark go through the roof.

on Feb 10, 2010

Utemia,  Politicking is a word (but dont ask me how to spell it).  And the Tea party may eventually spin off a new party.  But I kind of doubt it.  What it will do is drag the republicans back to the right (some).  It would be nice to have a new party - and a new choice.  But the one thing Americans seem very averse to is the politics of europe - where there are multicple parties and none have a majority (just the biggest gets to lead with concessions to the parties close to it).

I think the net effect (between 2 parties and more) is probably about the same when it comes to actual governing.  All of them have to compromise when it comes to passing anything (and that is Obama's problem with Health Care).

on Feb 10, 2010

Most americans I met seem to be somehow paranoid to some extent. I remember conservations with a friend from Cali who is uber conservative and even the slightest hint of a critique of the war in Iraq or guantanamo detention centre (this had been 5 or 6 years ago) would make Mark go through the roof.

I can't answer for your friend but perhaps the reason you think Americans are paranoid is because our history and the present occasionally give us reason to be.

Our gov is getting bigger and bigger, and by definition that means our rights get smaller and smaller.  And then things like the topic of this blog happen, and it makes us pause and wonder what else exactly has changed while we weren't paying attention.

You call it paranoia.  Some might call it vigilance. 

As for Gitmo and the war.  Maybe your friend didn't like criticism because he supports those things.  Maybe he wouldn't like to hear you criticize his favorite car, food, or tv show.  Or maybe he thought you were attacking his country.  I dunno.  You'd have to ask him. 

Do you think a new party would have any success? Like if this Tea party movement ends in the founding of a new far right (or more right) conservative party than the Republicans, or a more conservative faction of the democrats would form a more centrist liberal party. I find it so hard to believe that people can only chose between left and right - there are lots of different political oppinions possible in that spectrum.

I don't know about a third party succeeding here U.  They haven't had a lot of luck in the past, and end up taking votes away from one candidate or another.  For instance, if the Tea Party did become a 3rd party, they'd likely take a majority of votes away from Republicans...which means victory for Democrats.  (Divide and conquer.)

I have no idea how to fix the current political system...actually I think it was established to be broken, or appear to be...frankly there is no perfect system when you allow millions of people to have an opinoin and participate in the process.  We sacrifice a bit of effeciency and effectiveness in a Republic.  But I'd take it anyday over a dictator, who is very efficient and effective because  what he says....goes.  Heh.

 

on Feb 10, 2010

And I have yet to see a group (liberal, conservative, republican, democrat, libertarian) that actually has everything right....as is most things in life...the truth is often a little bit of each.
A grand coalition of both conservatives and democrats should govern together. Then you could take the best from both sides.. wishful thinking, doubtful that it would work, too. But I could imagine smart people with different oppinions working together instead of only against each other in a perfect world.

The Department of Homeland Security seems to hold a lot of power. A domestic intelligence agency and federal police force rolled into one. Is there a way to find out if your name is on whatever list? I mean it would be sort of good if my name ended up on a No passport list for some misdemeanor or something like what happened to your son. I can understand how some find that much power for an agency questionable

 

 

on Feb 10, 2010

OR the republicans were forced to be more liberal in their program to get the more conservative democrats to vote for them in order to keep the far right out of power. In such a scenario people would have to weigh their decisions more. In a sense, the election would become more political itself. It would be very interesting, that's for sure. The independant senators are already good for excitement.

on Feb 11, 2010

OR the republicans were forced

That won't happen, this is still America.  Besides most of the people I know, while they can occasionally be debated into a new idea, will dig in when someone tries to force them.  The fight becomes about the FIGHT and not the subject. 

The Department of Homeland Security seems to hold a lot of power. A domestic intelligence agency and federal police force rolled into one. Is there a way to find out if your name is on whatever list? I mean it would be sort of good if my name ended up on a No passport list for some misdemeanor or something like what happened to your son. I can understand how some find that much power for an agency questionable

As far as I know there is no way to know until they someone tells you, and there are different lists for different things.

For instance, my uncle went to buy a gun ...they refused to sell it to him because his name was on one of these "lists."  (Very common name)  It happened twice, and eventually he was able to purchase a gun after several months, but it frustrated him no end.  He has no record, never been in any trouble, so he thinks it was just a case of the same name mix-up....Not sure what he did to remedy the situation tho, I'll have to ask.

 

 

2 Pages1 2